$30/hour to be a carpenter? The unions are killing American jobs, one industry at a time. Madness!

I wonder if the unions are paying the protestors prevailing wage and giving them benefits.

I will be curious to see if any of the Patch faithfuls find a reason to support these job /business killer would-bes. If there is any, surely it would be found here.

I'm not necessarily going to support or defend the union's position here, but I would just like to point out the math involved. 40 hour week x $30 per hour = $1,200 per week. Just over $62,000 per year. Is there a reason people shouldn't be fighting for a living wage? I'd sure love to know why it's OK for those who pay wages to fight for lower wages but it's wrong for those who get paid to fight for hire wages.
I have no doubt, M. Legison, that you don't see the job killing aspect of CEOs making millions of dollars, but somehow you see it as job killing for blue collar workers to want to make a livable wage. Fascinating.

Hi Mark. I know CEOs making as much as they do are job killers. The CEO for the company I work for made 150 million last year and he is shipping jobs oversees this year in the name of reducing costs. If the world were right by my eyes he would have made 148 million last year and saved the jobs in a time where the country can't afford to lose any jobs (assuming it ever can afford to do so). BTW, our stock price has nearly tripled in the eight years I've been with the company.

At the same time, jobs are moved over sees because people are paid 60-70k a year to bolt bumpers onto Fords and 60k a year to build houses (plus benefits). In my opinion a carpenter should be paid closer to $40k plus benefits, if they want more they become a supervisor / foreman and maybe make $70k. If they want to make more than that they move up another level and get their contractors license.

Well said, Jack.

I don't know what a carpenter or CEO should make. What i do know is that the compensation for CEOs is market driven. The union wants to provide an arbitrary floor, however when others are willing to provide the same labor for less, that's a market driven labor market, and that is how people become dissatisfied with their position and work to become more valuable to an employer.

No one owes anyone a living. I understand there is a segment of society who disagrees, including the President.

I just wish the compensation the CEOs are requesting weren't driven by greed. Mr. CEO, it wouldn't kill you to fly in the same helicopter more than once a week...

Companies used to be accountable to their stock holders, their community and their employees. Now they think they're only accountable to their stock holders.

I don't think the president thinks somebody owes anybody a living, I haven't seen anything of the sort based off of his policies.

So hate to shed some facts on this discussion....but for those who care please go to the DIR website to see what carpenetrs working on a prevailing wage job in our county get paid......yes....$ 54.00 per hour and change....no need to call names....look it up youself.....possess the facts then stake out your position......

Fishing_Tim ... not sure where you get your information, but I believe you're wrong ... http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlsr/PWD/Determinations/Northern/NC-023-31-1.pdf ... according to the information there, a journeyman carpenter in Sacramento County gets just over $31 per hour in salary. Additional benefits, some of which the employee doesn't actually see, takes it to $56 per hour. But, the $54 you throw around isn't actually salary.

There is so much to pick apart in the other comments here. Paying a carpenter $40,000 a year basically means they can't support a family, can't provide for a quality education for their children, and can't provide other opportunities to them as well. I'd hate to think you're suggesting that we should lower our living standards to those of the third world countries where the jobs are being shipped to. Tell me that's not the case. And, if it isn't, then you simply cannot defend CEOs who are doing that and also suggest that blue collar workers (and, in many cases these days, white collar workers) should just accept a wage and benefits package that sends them deeper into the hole. The one comment that was right was that corporations used to take care of their employees ... that's not the case anymore. It is all about, and only about, the bottom line now. Yes, free market capitalism is a beautiful thing. Criticize the OWS movement, but there's a validity to the message. The 1%, or whatever you want to call it, the elite, have lost sight of the need to raise all boats.

Mark, you're correct. You can't afford to raise a family on $40k/year. You're spouse is going to have to work as well (mine does and I make > $40k/year), you certainly can raise a family on $80k per year if you live to your means and stop trying to keep up with the Jones.

My thesis statement is this: We need to end the culture of consumption - everybody not just the rich. Live within your means, if you want more $ work for it but you shouldn't try and earn more money in the name pursuit of happiness. I've been to some of those 3rd world countries you referenced and saw people living in shacks that are happier than many (most) Americans. They have their family and their work/life is balanced - they desire no more. CEOs should be allowed to make whatever they want; but if you make 150 million per year you should use 149 million of it (or some great number) to help others. For those that need inspiration, http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/news/secret-billionaire-chuck-feeney-story

You shouldn't try to earn more money in the name of pursuit of happiness?? And, why not? I love making money. It's fun. It provides jobs and most importantly, it gives one a great deal of freedom. I have a great lifestyle. I work because I enjoy it. I enjoy helping budding entrepreneurs succeed. I live a fairly frugal life usually, but I do as I please, and give a lot back quietly and to places and people that don't get much else. i like that, and I've earned the right to make those choices.

Money can't buy happiness. I didn't make that up but I believe it to be true. Friends, family and love make you happy, not fancy cars and giant TVs.

I make great money and have a great lifestyle, but that isn't what makes me happy. In fact, I'm investing a good deal of time to go back to school to become a teacher. I will make much less $ but be considerably happier than writing software for some corporation that doesn't care about me or anybody else but a bunch of dead presidents.

See there's the difference, Jack. I LOVE what I do, and I do several different things. If I didn't, I wouldn't do it, and I haven't always had that luxury. I like the action. I like being at risk. It keeps you young.

Actually, I don't think there is a difference. It seems you love the action and the risk, it just so happens your application involves $. I stand by my belief: if somebody is unhappy, I won't send them off to try and earn more $, I'll send them off to evaluate life and what's important to them (and why). Maybe that is $ for some people but I believe them to be in the minority.

By the way - I run a robotics and engineering program that inspires kids in elementary school and supports them all the way through high school. We teach the students many things including application of what they learn in school, advanced engineering, creativity and the value of hard work. We are building a robot right now to compete with, the students are spending upwards of 30 hours per week (in addition to school, sports and other responsibilities) learning how to be the the innovators of tomorrow.

We are a non-profit that is run by volunteers that is dependent on grants / donations. If you have the means to assist us I would love to put my student business manager who is in charge of writing grants and working with local businesses. Check out our website (which our web team is still working on) www.wolfpackrobotics.org

Jack Covert
jack.covert@wolfpackrobotics.org

Jack I understand what you are saying. We come from different perspectives, and I don't think that makes either of us right or wrong. I appreciate the program detailing. I'll be blunt, it doesn't fit our family fund profile. We focus on children and adults way, way below that level.

It was a good debate!

When, not if -- unless the city derails this whole thing -- the medical and pharmacy college finally get started in Elk Grove, the city would be the fourth in the state to have both schools in its limits. It would be far from perhaps the first in the country, as noted in the story.

Hello, as a non union carpenter working now at a prevailing wage job (Veterans Affairs McClellan Park Sacramento) i am paid on my check 57.88 per hour. A chart is put in my check with a DIR printout for carpenters in area 3. There are 6 different columns that add up to this amount. I am paid this as my hourly wage.
The 31.62 is just the base wage then all the benefits are totalled on top of that so that i get paid the $ 57.88 per hour. When I work out at UCDavis in Yolo county I get almost $ 65.00 an hour on my check. Please build more stuff out at UCDavis!!!!

You have the best of all worlds. Franklin J. You're making a great wage without paying into the union's buy-a-politician fund. You might not want to answer this (understandable), but without prevailing wage, what would you roughly be earning on non-public work?

M.james
Jack, you dont even understand the issues, Do you think the unions of America only Pay Politicians or get them elected? after reading your chain email it was clear. when you are confronted with truethful information you change the subject. Trade Unions spend on average ($500.000) per year on taining and apprentiship, these are carrier based jobs and whats wrong with having health insurance and a pension, the unions are not the problem, there tax structure paves the roads and builds the infastructure and funds the schools, when middle class jobs are gone, so will the revinue that goes with them (Race To the Bottom ) the reason California is BROKE is that Corporations need to PAY there fair share to the commons, and if you want to see what a country looks like without a MIDDLE class and police and fire and public education just head south 350 miles and stay there, and it appears by your email chain you have no problem taking tax payers grants and then stating people like me make to much! When you come to your senses please remember this is America

M.James. Carpenters making over $100k/year is nonsense. Especially when they get a pension on top of that. That's all there is to say about that. I've been all over Central and South America, I know what it's like. I think teachers are way under paid but our inability to get rid of bad teachers is very bad. I think there is also a lot of waste at the administration level (think big like Federal), there are too many layers between the money and the students. I believe police/fire are paid appropriately but they don't pay nearly enough into their pensions.

Regarding corporations paying their fair share of taxes, you bet. But I would say that everybody needs to pay their fair share, including corporations. I don't think it's right that people like Mitt Romney and much of the rest of the 1% pay just under 14% income tax while I pay closer to 32%.

Regarding the evolution of the conversation, if you play close attention, the conversation I was having with M.Legision evolved, much like any other conversation would.

<to be continued>

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To summarize: Carpenters shouldn't make $100k/year. I know you can't put your kids through college on $20/hour but they can get loans like my kids are. If you're a carpenter your wife/husband will probably have to work as well. If you want to make more $$, move up the food chain. If you travel to Europe you will see what this country will look like when manufacturing is gone, carpenters make $100k/year and everybody has a nice fat pension. It doesn't work.

Secondly, $ is not the key to happiness. Going South of our border should show you that. Families have nothing but are more happy than many of us. We need to end the culture of greed, we should put more emphasis on the time we spend with friends and family than we do the size of our TV.

I have full control of my senses and remember that this is America. Because I am an American I can be independent in thought and expression of those thoughts. I do not have to fully buy off on one parties banter (or the others).

Private unions make up 6.9% of the work force. Fact. The only Carpenters making a $100,000 (or more) are the project superintendents and they are both Union and non-Union.
I think a point to be made on the article above is a qualified Tradesman deserves a wage that will support his families needs. ie; purchase a home, car, help in some capacity to send their children to college, health care benefits so he does not go bankrupt an illness occurs, and a pension so he doesn't end up a burden on the State.
This is what I believe to be the basis of the American Dream for someone who works hard and plays by the rules.

The unions don't always pay that well. For example, they're only paying the Occupy protestors at CPAC $60 per day.